Dec 22 or 23 -- Any interest in El Pescador??

[jhwalker]

What gesture is the flatbed truck driver giving you?

I am not at liberty to discuss the goings on with my car until some resolution is reached, but, the tow truck driver was professional and nice, and he had a Harley, so it was all in fun. However, I told the noisy neighbor that my car had been repossessed, as, that is less shameful than the fact that it failed completely at just over 6000 miles, and, in any case, as quickly as warranty service is, it may as well have been repossessed. So, the tow truck driver became the repo man, and he was down with that.

Come to think of it, I wonder if my car ever made it to a Ford dealership? And, I might add that I have already learned a lot about the value of an included bumper to bumper new car warranty, that I was ignorant of all these years. But, one can not fight city hall, or big brother, and the Ford warranty covers all the issues of inconvenience or incurred costs, and, in fact, everything that could happen. And, I purchased the car, with the warranty, which Ford does not conceal, so, I accepted the conditions,which I now find, have absolutely no time limits set on repairs under warranty. So, the reports of long times spent at dealerships for warranty work are being borne out in my case as well. Perhaps it is an industry standard for autos, and, perhaps I have been spoiled by the excellent warranty responses of electronics firms that I have dealt with?

In any case, the status of my car that broke on Nov 28, is that the Ford dealership has it still, and, they are saying sometime next year, and that this is the best that they can do as they only have one heavy line tech, and only that one tech is authorized to do the work, which requires a big hunk of contiguous hours to do. And, indeed, while clutch work is pretty straightforward, it does take time as the trans has to be pulled. Good videos of a clutch install on a 2015, and up, Mustang, seem to say 6-8 hours labor, and, a helper with the work is also very useful as exhaust and driveshaft and heavy transmissions are difficult to deal with solo.

So, I wait........ And, I can't help but wonder what went wrong, as I have not beaten on the 2017 at all, and I am not a clutch killer.

Don't we have other former repo men on the board? Ohio John? I repo'd farm equipment in the Fla panhandlein 1964 -- I've told the story -- I was not the right person to take an old tractor from a small farmer trying to make a living... that is what got me back into college.

[jhwalker]

What gesture is the flatbed truck driver giving you?

I am not at liberty to discuss the goings on with my car until some resolution is reached, but, the tow truck driver was professional and nice, and he had a Harley, so it was all in fun. However, I told the noisy neighbor that my car had been repossessed, as, that is less shameful than the fact that it failed completely at just over 6000 miles, and, in any case, as quickly as warranty service is, it may as well have been repossessed. So, the tow truck driver became the repo man, and he was down with that.

Come to think of it, I wonder if my car ever made it to a Ford dealership? And, I might add that I have already learned a lot about the value of an included bumper to bumper new car warranty, that I was ignorant of all these years. But, one can not fight city hall, or big brother, and the Ford warranty covers all the issues of inconvenience or incurred costs, and, in fact, everything that could happen. And, I purchased the car, with the warranty, which Ford does not conceal, so, I accepted the conditions,which I now find, have absolutely no time limits set on repairs under warranty. So, the reports of long times spent at dealerships for warranty work are being borne out in my case as well. Perhaps it is an industry standard for autos, and, perhaps I have been spoiled by the excellent warranty responses of electronics firms that I have dealt with?

In any case, the status of my car that broke on Nov 28, is that the Ford dealership has it still, and, they are saying sometime next year, and that this is the best that they can do as they only have one heavy line tech, and only that one tech is authorized to do the work, which requires a big hunk of contiguous hours to do. And, indeed, while clutch work is pretty straightforward, it does take time as the trans has to be pulled. Good videos of a clutch install on a 2015, and up, Mustang, seem to say 6-8 hours labor, and, a helper with the work is also very useful as exhaust and driveshaft and heavy transmissions are difficult to deal with solo.

So, I wait........ And, I can't help but wonder what went wrong, as I have not beaten on the 2017 at all, and I am not a clutch killer.

Don't we have other former repo men on the board? Ohio John? I repo'd farm equipment in the Fla panhandle in 1963-4 -- I've told the story -- I was not the right person to take an old tractor from a small farmer trying to feed his family / make a living... that is what got me back into college.

[SonicVenum]

Any update on your car, Pat? Did they ever get the parts in? Do we need to form a posse and go put some pressure on them?

[Tetge]

Any update on your car, Pat? Did they ever get the parts in? Do we need to form a posse and go put some pressure on them?

A posse would not bother Ford, as they are too big, protected, and powerful, to be influenced by reason or force. One is at Ford's mercy when it comes to Ford standing behind their product. So, I finally I got the car back the last l time 52 days after the OEM clutch failed unexpectedly and with no warning. My journey getting a car back that was able to be used for transportation around town at least, even though the final "fix" by the dealer is still not correct, was so stressful, that I am currently trying to come to grips with all the consequences and behaviors attending the second complete clutch kit installed by the dealership, after they grudgingly agreed that the first clutch that they installed was not acceptable. It only took leaving the car at the dealership two days to install the second clutch as I took the car in on a Monday, and it was returned on Tuesday afternoon, which further proved how quickly they could have done a repair if they wished to. They also started to furnish loan vehicles at the very end, as they were supposed to all along, but, I did not even get the full 4 days, no questions asked, of loan vehicles that I was always entitled to being still under the original 36mo/36000 mile bumper to bumper warranty.

I learned a lot about warranties due to this rotten experience, and, I although I long ago had a negative impression (which they earned) of the local Ford dealership, even though I purchased an SVT Focus and the Terminator from them, the latest encounter with them solidified and confirmed my opinions. Other locals also had bad experiences with the dealership, but, I expect that Ford needs a dealership out in the sticks, as there is a sufficient population now to require and support such a dealership, and, the local dealership is acting as it they have a monopoly, which, by the towing and other rules of the Ford warranty, they do. There used to be other businesses that had similar attitudes due to being the only shows in town, but, now, with the increased population, new stores, and the ability to order on line, many of the old crooks, have disappeared along with their attitude that you were lucky that they chose to do business with you at all.

In any case, the car is still not completely right, and I now also am very leery of using it in a spirited fashion, as the OEM clutch did not hold up past 6318 miles, and, I was easier on the 2017 than on any new Mustang I ever owned, and, my first new Mustang was a 1967 390 GTA, so that is 50 years worth. It is fortunate that I retired from racing, and, also that I really hardly drive these days, as I hope to milk this clutch out for a long time, unless it too has defects that will lead to early failure no matter what I do. It most likely will last until after the bumper to bumper warranty has expired, later this year. But, should the clutch go again, off warranty, I would seek a competent shop, and get a good aftermarket clutch, with all the good upgrades. The need for this is well documented by many on the web, and the dual disk clutch that Ford switched to for the 2018 and up, along with the changes to the MT82 trans, clearly indicates that Ford was aware that the 15-17 clutch was not strong enough. The mechanic said that the main issue was that Ford engineered the clutch for easy effort, and, even hydraulic, it meant less clamping spring pressure. He recommended that when the new, made in Turkey, and not well liked when reviewed on the web, second clutch, that he installed, failed, I should get an aftermarket clutch. But, of course, there was still the implication that it was I who created all the clutch issues all along, so, naturally, I was going to destroy the latest one as well. This after making me take him for a test run on the old, bad clutch, and, after I insisted on him riding with me while I felt on the second clutch when I picked it up. So, he was forced to abandon his attempt to prove that I did not know how to use a clutch, as I passed his test.

So, the status is that I have a 456 HP (Ford's OEM 435 HP + Ford Racing's Power Pack Stage II, 21 HP on 93 octane) with + 40 lb/ft of torque at 1500 RPM which might explain both the poor rear tire life and the clutch, but, if so, it is Ford's fault, as one of the big pluses of the Power Pack is the continuance of the full warranty along with full smog compliance. In several contacts by me with Ford Racing, they denied any clutch issues connected to the Stage ii mod that I have, although they too mentioned after market clutches. I also should note that I have less power due to only 91 octane, and the altitude that I live at. But, with its too short overall first gear ratio of 13.64:1 (the Terminator was only 9.9:1 in first even with 4.10's), and all that torque, and since mostly all I did, and still do, is stop and go short hops around town, it seems that the power (even stock) may have outgrown the clutch and transmission. Naturally Ford would never own up to this, and, in fact, they make getting warranty coverage as unpleasant as possible, while doing everything that they can to try to shift the blame onto the customer.

Shoddy behavior as far as I am concerned, but, more and more common, it seems. At least I got a survey from Ford about my experience, and, I expect that you can figure out the marks that I gave the dealership, who called me a few weeks after I completed the survey and left a message that they got the survey results and could not understand why I was so negative and upset! I just deleted the message, as it was clear to me that by calling, and leaving that message, it was obvious that they had no real acknowledged clue, because, it seems, they thought that they handled everything wonderfully.

I also need to state that none of what I say is liable, as I have videos and recorded messages, and a lot of Ford dealership paperwork, that proves how unfairly and outside the established rules, that they handled my warranty repair. If I were the Ford dealer, I would not be anxious to open a can of worms as I documented everything, and they made a lot of spoken and written mistakes and misrepresentations. But, even after my negative review, Ford, itself, has never reached out to me, and, in fact, they sent my review to the same dealership to handle. So, at the end of the day, I place all the responsibility for poor warranty service on a nearly new car, owned by a true Ford fan boy, directly on Ford, as it is up to Ford to insure that dealerships are up to par, franchised, or not.

So, who knows? Ford won for the moment, as any car that runs is a plus for me, and, since I am not impressed with the knowledge or quality of the local dealership, and there are no other dealerships close, I have zero desire to ever let them have my car again. it also sat outside at their dealership for long periods of time, although to that point it was always garaged, and my extra cost paint was not made any better by the treatment it received on a dealership's lot. They even told me that my battery was only so-so when they did their "free" exam of the car, which one could imagine after it sat around for many weeks without any charging.

But, it now is water under the bridge, and, I have learned yet another lesson as I always prized warranties, and, I was retired from racing, but the Ford Racing mod, which seemed pretty trivial in terms of hardware or performance, seemed like a good idea, just because I used to enjoy mods. But, I have to conclude that the Mustang is not as durable as it once was, and, for sure, it is not at all user friendly due to all the sophisticated electronics it has. And, to boot, only a Ford dealer has the software to do pin point checks for error code causes, and to correct them. It turns out that the clutch replacement also required the special Ford tools to perform the "Misfire Monitor Re-learn Procedure", that was triggered by the clutch replacement, and that was the cause of all the error codes that kept came up immediately when they returned the car the first time. I had to use my lap top to read the codes, and do research, and then hammer the dealership, to get them to finally get all that done correctly. So, it is fortunate that I purchased a lap top, and that I had GAS (Galpin) use it to flash the Ford Racing tune into the car when they installed the Stage II package. Because, I have the software and I could see the PCM and read, and clear, error codes, I was able to read the codes after the Ford dealership stated that they could do nothing as they were not a Ford Racing dealership, and, they could not connect to the PCM at all. I previously had to flash an updated tune into the car, not long after I first got the mod and lucky that I was an old hand, Predator trained, and I could flash the PCM with confidence.

But, although the local dealerships had to be schooled by me on technical matters, they still apparently felt that I was an incompetent old fool, as they did one thing after another that was improper. But, I stayed patient, as they do have a monopoly, and, fair or not, per Ford, dealerships can refuse to do warranty work, and get away with it. Sometimes it is necessary to just suck it up and go with the flow, as fussing and yelling have no impact if you have no leverage with which to back things up.

Since then, I have even been considering having GAS return the car to completely stock, as I have all the parts, and, I could wait while they did it, and, then, trading the Mustang in for some sensible vehicle, surely not a Ford, like a Honda Accord. But, it would cost me a ton of money and it should not even be a consideration considering how new my Mustang still is. And, I have to say, I still like the size of the Mustang, and, it still has that American V8 sound, and I am used to driving Mustangs.

So that is the story to date.

[SonicVenum]

Damn, what an ordeal! It sucks that they had 2 full model years to get the clutch/trans sorted out on your car before you go it, but at least they have some sort of fix. You hit the nail on the head with your local dealer being so sh*tty because they don't have local competition. Our local dealer was pretty easy to deal with when we took Rach's Edge in for a couple minor issues, but they know we have 3-4 more options for Ford dealers within a 20 mile radius.

Hopefully you won't have any more issues with it. You should be able to beat up on a muscle car a bit before something like that gives.

[Tetge]

Damn, what an ordeal! It sucks that they had 2 full model years to get the clutch/trans sorted out on your car before you go it, but at least they have some sort of fix. You hit the nail on the head with your local dealer being so sh*tty because they don't have local competition. Our local dealer was pretty easy to deal with when we took Rach's Edge in for a couple minor issues, but they know we have 3-4 more options for Ford dealers within a 20 mile radius.

Hopefully you won't have any more issues with it. You should be able to beat up on a muscle car a bit before something like that gives.

It is still not right, and, I now drive it gently all the time hoping that it will not break down again, but, perhaps that is a good thing, as my hooligan days are over at this point. It remains a shame that the car is so apparently fragile, but, I always measure it, and all other Mustangs, against the Terminator, and, since the Terminator was my favorite of all time, and since it checked all the boxes, all others come up short. But, the 2017 may be my least favorite Mustang of all time, which is very disappointing, since on paper it has all the goods, including a rated HP of 435, which is more than the stock Terminator's 390 HP. But, Ford engineered all the soul out of it, although they apparently addressed this to some extent with the 2018 and up, 460 HP models, with more power on the top end and a higher red line and available active exhaust and the 10 speed auto that unlocks a ton of performance. They also added adaptive shocks as an option, and switched to better tires with the performance package, but, all the improvements also add a bunch to the cost of a nicely fitted out GT.

So, now, I finally have more horsepower on tap than I need, since I am reformed and never use HP. The soulless Coyote works nicely for this as it runs like a truck motor with big torque as low as 1500 RPM. So, I have become one of those old men that I used to be frustrated by as a youngster, that has what appears to be a clean muscle type car, with a sort of lumpy idle that can be heard, and who gently leaves red lights and short shifts granny style up to top gear, as if there were an egg on the throttle pedal, a\dn they were competing in a fuel economy contest. I also now know that those old men were aware on some level that they were frustrating youths by not putting on a show, and that this was almost as much fun, and a ton more prudent, than getting on their car would have been. Not every exciting compared to doing a burnout and slamming through the gears, but...........

[SonicVenum]

... you digress.

Reading your tale has helped make up my mind that my next Mustang will be 2018+, or if I can swing it, a 2016+ GT350. We shall see.

[Tetge]

... you digress.

Reading your tale has helped make up my mind that my next Mustang will be 2018+, or if I can swing it, a 2016+ GT350. We shall see.

They keep improving the GT350's, so, old ones may become affordable to some extent. I have never really researched issue with GT350's but I read that some early ones had issues with excessive oil consumption. I do know that GT350 prices remain inflated at this point. I also know that a GT350 with its ultra soft and very expensive tires, and its 10 qts of oil that needs frequent changes, would be a very expensive daily driver. As for the rest, the 18's, and up, have clear performance edges over any prior models, and, the 10 speed auto is an important part of that, since having 7 gears ending in a 1:1, 7th gear, is too big an advantage to ignore. The manual in the 18's and up may be somewhat better than previous MT82's, and may have a better clutch, but, it is 1:1, in 4th gear, so, obviously it has big gaps in its gearing compared to the 10 speed auto. In fact, magazine tests do not show the 18 and up, manual cars, as having much, if any of a 0-60, advantage, or much of an edge in 1/4 miles ET over the previous 15-17 manual cars. Even the Bullet, with an additional +20 HP rating, but with no option for the auto trans, is not much quicker than older ones, and no match for a 10 speed auto car, with 20 less HP.

To top it off, the newer V8 Mustangs are quite a bit more expensive to buy, license, and insure. And, none of the modern models are the least bit user friendly when it comes to repairs, as their PCM's are very powerful and contro a ton of functions, but, basically, only dealerships can afford to license the Ford software to do diagnostics on the cars. And, diagnostic tests are basically necessary both to pin point (Ford's terminology) issues and to do mandatory resets of important sensors, and such. So, a lot of repairs have to go through a dealership at dealership labor rates as local shops can not interface with the PCM, let alone a shade tree mechanic.

Just saying that the Mustang appears to have become an expensive toy as opposed to being a bang for the buck performance vehicle for the peoples. And, this also means that it now should be considered to compete with various other machines near to its current price range, including tags and insurance, that once were a significant financial step beyond the Mustang in all up price. The new Corvette starts at less than $60K, for instance, and a loaded Mustang GT can be well over $50K, so, more than ever, the Corvette and V8 Mustang are aimed at the same audience, and. early roads tests now clearly indicate that the Corvette will thump a Mustang, no contest. There are also BMW's and Audi's, and other makes, with quite decent performance around the $50K + price range. And, even loaded to the gills, the Mustang still begins as a $26K, base, four cylinder model, so it is not a particularly special car to own, as they all look about the same these days, and, the lowly turbo 4 with a 10 speed auto gets right along.

PS: You still will not fit all that well in a Mustang, as the roof is lower than it was in previous models, as it still is not a large vehicle as far as room for occupants goes.

[SonicVenum]

I've been keeping tabs on these cars. The Voodoo engine does consume oil. Those consuming more than the allowable amount, which is till high for a normal car, get a new engine under warranty. I left out the 2015 GT350 because you only get the trans/diff coolers on the track pack, but then you lose the nicer Sync 3 system. You'd need the Tech Pack for that. In 2016, due to many complaints from 2015 owners overheating on track days, the coolers became standard.

For any of these vehicles, the key is buying used, thus avoiding all that initial depreciation, and buying an ESP from one of the dealers that deeply discounts them online. Then you get a good 4-5 years of additional bumper-to-bumper coverage from your purchase date. Mileage isn't a concern because it would be a track day/fair weather car. The truck will be the daily.

[SonicVenum]

Oh, and as for me fitting in the new Mustangs, I've test driven a few '18+, and fit great. Definitely much roomier than a Fox, and a New Edge.