Tim's Crash Video is Out

[the1904kid]

I wish I had a solid platform from which to debate that statement. But, I don't.

Odd. For some reason many of us think the lower speeds, lighter bikes, tighter corners and I suppose the dirt bike based format of it all would be "safer".

But, when compared with other full on Road Racing events, Supermoto seems to have a higher injury rate. At least as of lately.

When trying to pick that apart and figure out why, the only thing that seems to come forward, is that it is not the high speeds that hurts riders, but the slower, tighter, more abrupt changes in direction and speed. Something in abundance in Supermoto Kart Track events . At higher speeds one gets off lower, slides and if one's safety gear can withstand the abrasion, and you are not struck by another rider or machine passing by at high speed, the injuries are minor. Supermoto, despite the lower speeds, they throw the rider to the ground in much more violent fashion, due to various reasons. Odd, but apparently true.

Perhaps it is also because one sits so far off the ground on a supermoto. Those road racers are usually hanging off inches from the ground in the first place, although I have seen a few nasty high side crashes on TV. Generally, however, they tend to slide, and, generally at real road race circuits, there are more expansive run outs than at kart tracks, where space is limited. Still, it seems that supermotos at kart tracks are crashing a lot and relatively serious injuries seem to be common.

looks like safety costs money. the only way to ride cheaper than supermoto is to ride motocross, and we all know that motocross is a guaranteed way to get a ticket to the hospital!

[Tetge]

I always said that supermoto was motocross on pavement. The bikes are closely related and the riding styles similar and, in fact, some older former motocross riders gravitate to supermoto. And, it also seems connected when it comes to injuries. Perhaps it is just the mindset of riders who proclaim dirt and kart tracks as safer than the street? It seems this removes the safety margin that most street riders leave in their riding and opens the door for crashes. But, I will agree that if you are going to crash, then tracks are a better place to do it than the street.

[Brakelate]

I used to race MX. I enjoy the higher speed wide open outdoor tracks, that were most similar to those of days gone by that just followed natural terrain. I think I would like a National Hare and Hound type of event held back east that runs through the woods without the "artificial" obstacles.

The problem is, that about the time I got out of it (early '90s) the sport was growing, at and to gain interest and keep folks coming back, they kept increasing the technical nature of the courses. Some of that was due to space limitations, as many were going to the "stadium" format, while the largest threat was the increased size, shape, and distances involved in the jumps. Before there were rolling hills, then built up "flat top" mounds, then it went from long distance high speed singles to doubles to suicide triples, with no margin for "coming up short", or even experimenting or safe way to build up the skill (or courage) required to clear these things. What purpose do they serve, other than to wow the crowds? Now, thousands of kids across the country are crippled from these types of tracks.

I started out at Carlsbad GP, primarily ran at Perris, then also a bunch of places including LACR, the outdoor track at Edwards AFB, and my last "real" race was a very stupid attempt at a stadium "supercross" event at the Antelope Valley Fairgrounds, under the lights.... aboard a bone stock 1990 CR500 ! Nuts. It did not go well. But, I survived. I almost left right after the first practice, as a guy badly broke his arm in the killer high, dastardly spaced sharp whoop section beside me, but I had family and friends coming to cheer me on, so I went through with it.

Anyway, I think the most fun was just riding open desert. Duning out at Pismo, Glamis, Dumont and others before it got too crowded with drunks in $100k sand buggies. You have to go out a ways, as even all the local spots like Gorman, Big Bear and all the other trail systems anywhere near LA are too crowded as well. But, you get out in the desert and you can still have a lot of fun just blasting around enjoying the open terrain, natural challenges and time with you bike and a few good buddies.

[Tetge]

I rode the open desert at places such as Holiday and up on the Green Horn loop when it was still really open. I really enjoyed it as it was sort of like street riding since there were a lot of trails and places to ride rather than riding a limited amount of track at a facility. This is also why I prefer canyon carving to the Streets of Willow or some kart track. I agree that one does not, or should not, push the limits as much while crossing open desert miles from anywhere or riding canyons, but, this actually may reduce the crashes. I finally gave up dirt riding many years ago because I was always banged up and I decided that the proclaimed risks of street riding were a better choice than the reality of the inevitable get offs and the potential for serious injuries that dirt riding presented. Now, I perceive that supermotos at kart tracks present similar risks of injuries, and, I have witnessed a number of riders who kept crashing until they disappeared from the scene. But, I also suppose that everyone is different and, as with most things, people want to experience things for themselves so all of this is just one person's opinion.

[Brakelate]

Traction. Both times I have hit the ground, I landed and flat STUCK! Competition grade asphalt is like Velcro, and on a hot day, add the layers of sticky rubber from bikes and primarily shifter karts, and you have a very grippy situation. If there were reduced traction, there would be no chance of a High Side, and if you did hit the ground, even from a high, steep angle, you might shed a good amount of bone snapping energy in sliding it off.

Hmmmm, perhaps we need to run the hardest touring tires we can find, on a polished concrete circuit.

The one time I did get off on a low-side event, I was doing over 60 mph and slid for like what seemed to be about two blocks at the time (maybe 60 feet in reality) and walked away without even a bruise, scratch or anything! It was so smooth and comfortable I can say it was down right graceful. Just scuffed up my leathers.
Go figure.

[the1904kid]

I've been a little busy and minorly injured myself again at stateline, hence being MIA due to damaged pride and time.

Here is a sad update from our buddy. I can pass on the contact info for any interested parties. Brakelate's former race steed is now up for sale:

"Some sad news from the Clarke racing stable.

Shawn has officially pulled my racing card. Plus, I am in dire need of some cash to pay the bills, due to being out of work. So, I am selling off my Supermoto gear.

As most of you know, the Saturday before STTARS rd 2, I had some motor problems on the 525, which is why I was running Dave's bike when I crashed. I have spoken to Roy Stafford (mechanic) and he has advised me that a tooth from the Crank or counter shaft gear broke off and scarred up the piston & cylinder. He has all the parts to fix, but I don't have the $500-600 to get her put back together. With that said, I have decided to sell my lovely lady to someone who can, and will love her like I do.

I am asking $2500 for the bike and all of my spares.
2005 KTM 525 SMR
Slipper clutch installed
extra set of wheels (KTM OEM)
Portable Wheel Chock
KTM Tire Warmers (unless Dan Stoner buys them 1st)
Used KTM Supermoto Silencer (needs repacking)
plus anything else I may have laying around that fits this bike.

I want to be completely upfront with the condition of the bike, as I am hoping she goes to someone within the family. So, if you have any questions about her, please feel free to contact me. I would be happy to give you Roy's number as well, if you want to ask him any questions or want him to finish the repairs.

I am still planning on supporting our local supermoto family. Even if that means I am unable to be on the track with all ya'all, I will be around to help in the pits.

Much love and Mahalo.
timothy #119"

[Brakelate]

Damn.

So, you need to start up your own "Stateline Challenge" thread and share your experience. You can't be embarrassed or afraid to share the tale, the way I see it, you are already a hero since none of us have attempted it, and you did! Who cares how you placed, at the end of the day, you will forever be able to say you tried it. Not many people have the grit to even show up.

[jhwalker]

This is a sobering thread. Hang in there Tim. If I were late 20's thru late 40's I would be thinking my track plans out carefully. Are teflon-impregnated suits needed?

For me, my last serious wreck almost 2 years ago would have been a complete disaster if it were not for the loooooong slippery slide that followed the impact that left my complete back purple for over 2 months. On a track, I would have been toast. God bless the talcum powder I ride on.