Isle of Man results - CBR1000RR - the best Liter Bike?

[xbacksideslider]

Naturally I love it when "my bike" does well. The bikes run in the Senior TT appear to be modified stockers, "everyman" bikes, just like we can have, nothing particularly exotic. In superbike racing the CBRs are just "also rans" but, somehow, they always do well at the Isle of Man. Further, it's dealers and privateers, doing it with minimal factory support from Honda.

So . . . . , based on their years of TT wins in both Super Stock and the Senior, CBR 1000s are the best liter class street bike.

http://www.sportride...-record?image=0

[Tetge]

I think that the Honda is a perfect bike for you since you ride the street as if it is the Isle of Man. For mortals, and the winners at the Isle do not qualify as mere mortals, the Honda may be not as suitable. It is, after all, a sports bike with typical cramped ergonomics and low bars and tons of snappy power. I suppose that some people forget that Honda can make high performance machines with excellent handling and relatively low weight for what they are.

That said, some elderly folks and significantly less skilled riders, such as I happen to be, are more comfortable on a lighter bike that is easier to handle, and that has standard upright seating, and that aiso will have only low to moderate power as a design consequence, since big power always seems to add weight. A KTM 690 Duke, for instance, would drone slowly around the Isle of Man course, and would bore any of the top riders, as it would lack the power necessary to circulate at all in the manner of the fast guys. They go really fast, as anyone who has watched videos of the race knows. A 1290R would be much better but, apparently, either no one rubs then, or, Hondas are just better. I suppose that reliability also enters into the picture, along with support money.

So, as I said, you made a good choice for a street weapon suitable to your knee down, never lift, blazingly fast, riding style. And, even though you are rather large for the Honda, compared to the typical midget pro rider, it seems to have plenty of grunt and clearance and suspension to get the job done. I know that you beat me soundly on the Old Ridge Route and I was on a supermotard, which could not even match the Honda in the dirt. And, yes, there is video evidence.

Did I mention that the Isle of Man is an insane race. However, when my brother attended it some years ago, he said that it was good to attend since bars never close on the Isle. And, he also said that it was quite impressive to stand a few feet way from the racers as they came thundering by.

[Brakelate]

I can't get the link to work.

I'm still eyeballing that VFR1200f at the local Honda shop. Can't believe it is going on Six years old and it's still sitting there! Not sure what to make of that...

I would love to do a few parade laps around the Isle. Then sit and watch at an outdoor café as the boys (and girls) zip past while I have a snack. I think that event is still the ultimate in "Grass Roots Racing" if there is such a thing anymore for road-racy bikes. Too bad they don't have any closed public road "Up the Hill" runs around here. Other than perhaps something like the Silver State Classic. Not sure if they even hold that anymore, or if they have ever allowed motorcycles to participate.

The "One Mile" max-speed runs are probably fun once or twice, but the real pleasure is in learning not only the vehicles mechanical limits vs. atmospheric constraints, but in all aspects, such as traction limits and the "feel" of running a machine up a nice twisty bit.

The only other real even I would have to mention as being on any sort of "Bucket List" would be the Goodwood Speed Festival and the run up that rather wealthy boy's fine "driveway".

[Brakelate]

More on topic, I suppose, is to say that I appreciate the light, tiny liter-sized wonder bikes. Always thought I should have added an early ZX-10R to my long list of every other size Kawasaki.

Likewise, I must say that I am almost disappointed in the H2 for not being so absolutely over the top and out of control as it should have been. Hell, that mighty little BMW seems to run right along with it, in real-world open road bone stock trim. I don't think you should have to pay anything over the initial $25k to have it "uncorked" or the programming unwound to the point that it can reach it's full potential. Then again, I guess we should be happy to have problems as to which bike will break over 200 mph or 200 rwhp with the least amount of modification, which in reality, is quite little work indeed. And extremely affordable in any other terms of motorsports.

Hmmm, $18k or so for that BMW 1000RR and you get all that? Tetge has gone and spoiled me on my lust for the Super Duke, with the sharing of the BMWS1000xr. Watching a few of those pre-production videos of it's ABS-Pro in action, the sound of it's sweet and incredibly smooth intake howl to it's lightning quick, sharp bark of it's exhaust note during WOT upshifts with the use of it's Quick-Shifter and suddenly that insane, 1290R Gorilla of a KTM Twin seems to seem so undignified.

I've wandered again... I was going to ask 'The'Slider' if he'd ever ridden a "Big" bike, such as any generation Hayabusa, etc. My guess is that you enjoy the power to weight ratio of the overall package, rather than just how it gets to speed. But, one has to taste the sweet nectar of a "big bore's" torque and effortless power delivery to really say they have made an informed choice in which is better for a "street" bike. Especially when the size of the operator comes in to play. I sat on them all, back to back down at Bert's before riding out on that Hayabusa in '08. Like the ZX10R, the CBR1k was too small for near-daily rider work. As a weekend toy, I guess anything could be endured for a few hours at a time. Even a plank of a DRZ dual sport saddle.

I don't think I will ever have the need, or desire to ride anything "daily" any more. Especially having lost the fun of commuting over the ACH/AFH. So, I might consider something crazy such as a small, light, compact machine. But, I think I need to finish my ZX-14R/Hayabusa/H2 "chubby full size bike and rider" phase before going in that direction. Besides, why put yourself through all of that discomfort, when you can get so damn close to that level of performance with a silly Naked/Adv whatever the hell bike now a days, such as a Super Duke, 1000s or 1000xr? Unless I was a tiny "race jockey" of a guy that felt perfectly fine on a scrunched up liter bike. Then hell, why not go with the theme... if I was light and tiny, why not get the most bang for the buck with a light and tiny, yet powerful bike. Two reasons, I guess... One is comfort, and the other is usability. I think we are seeing in the latest round of showroom stock insane machines, that you really can't put all that power to use, without some form of weight, length or electronic aid holding things together. Clearly it is more popular to shed the first two items, so that leaves only those with the best and most effective electronic launch/traction/stability/anti-wheelie/lean angle sensing ABS and all of that to really sample the goods. And that costs money. But, it is becoming within reach for the "average guy". Much like cell phones or whatever.

Then again, isn't the CBR one of the last few liter bike, top show piece, brand crowned machines to NOT have all that fancy electronic intervention capability?

[jhwalker]

The Isle of Man is STILL on the list, but my friends here go to the vintage races later in the year. The one old guy has been there the last 25 years. I posted before that the guy said, "dude, I know how everything works, just tell me you are really going and I will give you the details". So I need to do it.

I think Terri and I are going to have to just say, Screw everything else, and get over there. And there still is "Silly Sunday", "suicidal sunday", "Stupid Sunday" where the amateurs get to ride the course. After signing the appropriate waivers of course. If it IS available, and I don't do it, then I should just start digging and then pull the dirt in after me.

[Brakelate]

That would definitely both be insane, yet the most enjoyable and crazy thing to participate in [the sunday ride]. I actually would be more afraid of some ass-hat wanna be hot shot running into me while I poked along, rather than the course biting me at my own chosen pace.

But, just to say you did it, and experience it for yourself. I know they ferry tons of bikes back and forth, but what are the options? Would they even rent a crazy American something half way decent there to ride on. Hell, it could be a Kawai 300 or even a Vespa with a sidecar and still be a total lifetime memory making event.

[jhwalker]

That would definitely both be insane, yet the most enjoyable and crazy thing to participate in [the sunday ride]. I actually would be more afraid of some ass-hat wanna be hot shot running into me while I poked along, rather than the course biting me at my own chosen pace.

But, just to say you did it, and experience it for yourself. I know they ferry tons of bikes back and forth, but what are the options? Would they even rent a crazy American something half way decent there to ride on. Hell, it could be a Kawai 300 or even a Vespa with a sidecar and still be a total lifetime memory making event.

I will research and report back.

A couple of weekends ago I was at Pikes Peak standing around while Adam helped a guy running this year. A practice session was underway. I later was talking to the guy who is running a car and he said that with travel from California, lodging, and food and entry fees his budget for this year is $10K. I think that he is towing it out and then storing it there but he also mentioned making mods in his shop during the week after practice, so I don't know. Adam is helping him again this weekend.

There was a wide variety of cars running. This guy is running a TT 950 rwhp Mustang that has extensively been used for drifting (I'm sure) and road-racing (I think). Cage requirements are stringent. That is another "why didn't I ever do that at least once?" event. The road is paved to the top now. Less chance of suddenly dropping in on the folks living 7-8000 feet below Some of the cars are real race cars with driver's names that we have heard over the years, and some were ricers with fart cans.

[xbacksideslider]

http://www.sportrider.com/isle-man-tt-m ... lap-record

Brakelate, does that link work?

You are correct, the CBR is a hold out on electronic rider aids, I suspect that Honda is waiting for the product liability issues to shake out. In so holding back, they likely put licensing deals in place so they don't get frozen out later when the technologies are ready for Everyman.

I read in one of those magazines that you gave me, that new Yamaha R1M has a five or even six axis system with inputs from three or more gyros along with three or more accelerometers. The ECU processes those inputs at 125X/second and decides how much to adjust any or all of three engine inputs - throttle, fuel and ignition - to assist the rider. Meanwhile, that same ECU also listens to the sensors that are incorporated into the Ohlins forks and rear shock and then instantly tells stepper motors therein to adjust damping, spring loads, and even the ABS by applying the rear brake to reduce forward yaw, rear wheel slip, on hard braking. This latter being one of my soap boxes - "cover the rear brake on entries and through exit to keep the top run of the chain loaded and to prevent top run chain slack on throttle chop . . . and to prevent rear wheel side step when that slack moves back to the bottom run on exit throttle." Now they're doing it electronically!

In the 70's similar gyros/computers controlled the flight of ICBMs and were the object of Soviet Cold War espionage; there was a big scandal about the shipment to them of the machine tools that were used to grind the tiny but super accurately sized ball bearings that were part of the miniaturization of the gyros. Now the gyros/ECUs are "over the counter" at a motorcycle shop!

[Tetge]

132+ mph average and in a shortened main event he only won by 15 seconds? Those riders are all truly berserk, and, there are a few of them that run pretty close in lap times, so it is not just the Honda rider, although he is the man these days as far as dominating the race. But, to average 132+ is insane.

[xbacksideslider]

Yes, an AVERAGE of 132 mph is fast. Considering that they have to slow down to 30 to 40 or less in that one hairpin and down to the 50s or 60s or maybe 70s in several more, they have to be going close to 200 mph along the longer straight stretches.

Even with the admiration they do get, people don't usually appreciate how good those guys are. On almost every corner those guys are forced to start a slide as they cross that slippery center line of paint only to then face the negative camber of the crowned road on the other side of that line. THAT is the single most challenging fact of that kind of street racing and it is something that your typical canyon rider has no experience with because, if he is sane, he never uses both sides of the road. Pro racers almost never see a crowned road surface, race track corners usually have positive camber with the occasional negative camber built in intentionally, incompetently, or unavoidably.

And, Brakelate, no I have never spent any time in the saddle of a Hayabusa or 14. After high school graduation, my friend proposed that we go cross country and we did and that cured me of it; covering long miles is for cars or airplanes. For me its like downhill skiing vs cross country skiing, why would I do that? It's all about the turns.