2003-2004 Terminator memory lane... Walker

Re: 2003-2004 Terminator memory lane... Walker

Postby jhwalker » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:19 pm

:lol: strokers should not post.
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Re: 2003-2004 Terminator memory lane... Walker

Postby SonicVenum » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:23 pm

Jeez, that car made great power on the stock blower. That just barely beats the power I made with the Gen 1 Apten port, and beats the torque figure by about 50 ft lbs. Is the VMP twin screw? It sounds higher pitch than the roots, but not quite as high as the KB. I know the Whipple had a lower pitch than KB as well, and IIRC, the Whipple and VMP are pretty much the same thing, right?
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Re: 2003-2004 Terminator memory lane... Walker

Postby Tetge » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:04 am

The SVT Cobra was a great bargain, even when the MSRP is adjusted for current inflation, but, it now would be an antique, as electronic sophistication has allowed engine tuning using high compression ratios, and the new engines can spin higher than the old Terminator. The stock Coyote engine now is making more power than any stock Terminator, and the 10 speed auto basically is a deal changer as all those close ratios and faultless shifts can not be denied as the way to go if you want to run good numbers in the 1/4.

We spent tons of loot getting our Terminators to run 11's and LMR already has a fake video of a fake 2018 running fake 11's at almost 120 mph on MT DR's. It may even be that a 2018 Mustang GT with a 10 speed auto is the new Terminator, except the consistent 1.8x, 60' times reported by LMR on DR's that did not appear to be slipping, is still weak compared to the 60's that I did and Dave Park did in the screen dumps on my previous post. My 2012 auto had an issue with 60' times as well, even with no spin, as the stock trans does not have a high RPM stall speed, no doubt because slippage is bad for fuel economy. But, 11.88? Darned impressive..... My 2017 is in another universe at this point.

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Re: 2003-2004 Terminator memory lane... Walker

Postby jhwalker » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:14 pm

Tetge wrote:The SVT Cobra was a great bargain, even when the MSRP is adjusted for current inflation, but, it now would be an antique, as electronic sophistication has allowed engine tuning using high compression ratios, and the new engines can spin higher than the old Terminator. The stock Coyote engine now is making more power than any stock Terminator, and the 10 speed auto basically is a deal changer as all those close ratios and faultless shifts can not be denied as the way to go if you want to run good numbers in the 1/4.

We spent tons of loot getting our Terminators to run 11's and LMR already has a fake video of a fake 2018 running fake 11's at almost 120 mph on MT DR's. It may even be that a 2018 Mustang GT with a 10 speed auto is the new Terminator, except the consistent 1.8x, 60' times reported by LMR on DR's that did not appear to be slipping, is still weak compared to the 60's that I did and Dave Park did in the screen dumps on my previous post. My 2012 auto had an issue with 60' times as well, even with no spin, as the stock trans does not have a high RPM stall speed, no doubt because slippage is bad for fuel economy. But, 11.88? Darned impressive..... My 2017 is in another universe at this point.

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[quote="Tetge"]The SVT Cobra was a great bargain, even when the MSRP is adjusted for current inflation, but, it now would be an antique, as electronic sophistication has allowed engine tuning using high compression ratios, and the new engines can spin higher than the old Terminator. The stock Coyote engine now is making more power than any stock Terminator, and the 10 speed auto basically is a deal changer as all those close ratios and faultless shifts can not be denied as the way to go if you want to run good numbers in the 1/4.

We spent tons of loot getting our Terminators to run 11's and LMR already has a fake video of a fake 2018 running fake 11's at almost 120 mph on MT DR's. It may even be that a 2018 Mustang GT with a 10 speed auto is the new Terminator, except the consistent 1.8x, 60' times reported by LMR on DR's that did not appear to be slipping, is still weak compared to the 60's that I did and Dave Park did in the screen dumps on my previous post. My 2012 auto had an issue with 60' times as well, even with no spin, as the stock trans does not have a high RPM stall speed, no doubt because slippage is bad for fuel economy. But, 11.88? Darned impressive..... My 2017 is in another universe at this point.
----------------------------------
Tons of loot?[b]My memory is that we spent little money -- a pulley, belt, CAI, tune and tires -- chump change, except for those who chose to drop down to 4.10s. Running below 11.50 started costing a lot more unless you were a very good driver. As a workaholic computer systems guy for all the years between 1966 and 2002/3/4, and having last run at a drag strip in 1962 (in my sister's 6 cyl Ford Falcon) -- I was blown away by the Cobra.
I don't remember ever seeing a 1.4 60', but I don't think we screamed 'stop the press !' with a 1.6 -- my somewhat suspect memory recalls some 1.5s.
The 2003-4 is getting its due in world of jibba - jabba. :clap:
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Re: 2003-2004 Terminator memory lane... Walker

Postby jhwalker » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:09 pm

SonicVenum wrote:Jeez, that car made great power on the stock blower. That just barely beats the power I made with the Gen 1 Apten port, and beats the torque figure by about 50 ft lbs. Is the VMP twin screw? It sounds higher pitch than the roots, but not quite as high as the KB. I know the Whipple had a lower pitch than KB as well, and IIRC, the Whipple and VMP are pretty much the same thing, right?


yes, https://www.vmpperformance.com/VMP-TVS- ... -s/119.htm
I'll call my contact at VMP and tell him my next blower will be a Whipple and see what his reaction is. I tried to do a Whipple before the VMP and they seemed close in all ways. Then VMP said the magic words... How do we close the deal? :lol: .
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Re: 2003-2004 Terminator memory lane... Walker

Postby jhwalker » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:18 pm

SonicVenum wrote:Jeez, that car made great power on the stock blower. That just barely beats the power I made with the Gen 1 Apten port, and beats the torque figure by about 50 ft lbs. Is the VMP twin screw? It sounds higher pitch than the roots, but not quite as high as the KB. I know the Whipple had a lower pitch than KB as well, and IIRC, the Whipple and VMP are pretty much the same thing, right?


That was/is the Joe Jill-built engine that had a lot of intake porting done. . When last dyno'd with the Eaton, it had a 2.8 pulley. The VMP TVS I set up with a larger pulley, planning more touring. Did that 3000 mile Colorado to Wisconsis by way of Canada trip, and found for the 1st time in my life that the power was 'adequate'. I like it feeling like the engine does not know a car is being propelled. The spf pretty much feels like it right now.
Now that the modded Coyotes are making 7-8-900 rwhp and I could get 700-800 to the wheels without stress, the thought keeps coming to mind to just stick one in the SPF. If we take the long drive in July 2018, and Terri enjoys it, then maybe 1 last version of the SPF, just for the hell of it. :whistle:
(i do not have buy-in on this yet. 8-) but she may just realize she is in love after 5,000 miles of roaming around in the SPF
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Re: 2003-2004 Terminator memory lane... Walker

Postby 03_SONIC_BLUR » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:01 pm

I heard through the Ford Engineering grapevine about the Colletti rant on the 2002 Cobra, and the number of engines blown up in the dyno room before they settled on the cast iron block due to weaknesses in the WAP aluminum block. I ordered mine in early April 2002, and took delivery 06/06/2002. Some eye candy

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Re: 2003-2004 Terminator memory lane... Walker

Postby 03_SONIC_BLUR » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:13 pm

The car was the most fun I've ever had. My first Mustang was a Thanks Vermillion/Calypso Coral 1970 Mach 1 (Date of Manufacture resulted in a name change for the color). The original owner was a Service Manager at a Ford dealer, and he ordered it with the Drag Pak suspension and differential that came on the Boss Mustangs. Then he went stupid, and had a 351 Windsor 2 BBL and FMX auto trans installed during the build. I paid $1500 in 1975, and saved my nickels for the next year. I bought an M code 390 out of a 1963 T Bird and a C6 Auto. I had Jim Fain in Ventura do the machine work on the block, and shot peen the crank. TRW 10.5:1 forged pistons went into it, with McQuay Norris Nickel Cadmium bearings in all bearing surfaces, including cam bearings. I did the heads, with my Dad's guidance. Hooker LT's, 3 inch exhaust, Offenhauser medium rise aluminum manifold, Holley 780 Double Pumper and a Mallory Unilite ignition. Ed Iskendarian did a custom cam for me (An Army Air Corps guy like my Dad, who had known him in his Lakes Racer flathead days)

70 Mach1 1.jpg
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Re: 2003-2004 Terminator memory lane... Walker

Postby jhwalker » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:20 am

I loaned out my copy of 'Iron Fist Lead Foot' to ? (like too many of my books) :evil:
I found the book a riot, Colleti was a maniac, to whom we all owe a debt of gratitude. If anyone has never read it, you should.
I was NEVER going to sell Piggie 'cause its build date (6/17) was my birth date. :lol: But something happened. :think: Too many toys happened. :violin: At this point I am at peace with keeping the SPF with the Termi engine, but I see a Termi down here from time to time and get a little heart pang.
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Re: 2003-2004 Terminator memory lane... Walker

Postby Tetge » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:45 am

jhwalker wrote:Tons of loot?[b]My memory is that we spent little money -- a pulley, belt, CAI, tune and tires -- chump change, except for those who chose to drop down to 4.10s. Running below 11.50 started costing a lot more unless you were a very good driver.


Ones perception of spending ton's of money can vary, based upon ones financial circumstances. The new 2003 SVT Cobra that I paid MSRP for was $38000, out the door, and it was the most expensive car that I ever purchased up to that point by far. It was still more expensive out the door that the new 2012 auto that I traded it in for, and the new 2017 that I traded the 2012 in for, was still barely more than the Terminator, 14 years later. Just buying the 2003, put a big load on my humble finances. And, while I agree that a person with knowledge of just what parts and a good dyno tuner, could set up an 11 second Terminator for $3000-$4000 max, in 2002, I, and others who may have forgotten by now, lacked that specific information. We relied on magazine tests and Eastern mail order tuners and a hit or miss approach to do early mods. So, the raw cost of what ended up being my setup, were higher due to false starts. I had stacks of pullies and basically junk parts laying around my garage, along with various tuning tools that chipped or flashed the PCM. In my case, lots of starts and changes before I settled on what might be considered, when the dust settled, a classically modified Terminator. But, the cost of mods, while significant, was not the real basis for the expenditure of all my money, even mortgaged into the far future. It was the countless sessions at every drag strip I could get to, from Carlsbad to Famoso, often with food and drink factored in after the sessions at the strip. And it was the constant wear and tear on the vehicle and the many trips to the mechanic to get new clutches and complete differentials (three in all) and transmissions (remember the throughout bearing guide tube that always broke? I can not say how many pressure plates and clutch assemblies and flywheels I went through, but the numbers were impressive, and, not inexpensive at all to purchase and install. I still have a Termi drive shaft out in my shed, and, I still remember that my Termi shook like a wet dog due to driveshaft imbalance issues that never went away. My Terminator never once was towed, but, it barely limped home and/or, to the shop, as few times. Tires, and extra rims, also added significant costs over time, as the Terminator had utter disdain for tire mileage, and it ate through rear tires at a prodigious rate, and, it also ate front tires pretty quickly.

I never even attempted to figure out how much my bucket list fling at drag racing cost me, but, in retrospect, I have no regrets, since for awhile, I had a vehicle that on a good day could bump the 11.5 cage needed barrier, and still be perfectly fine on the street, for the most part. And, with all those trips to the strip, and long familiarity with the Terminator I even developed some fairly decent drag racing skills, in my own mind, of course, which was also part of the bucket list. But, it left me permanently destitute, as manic drag racing is never inexpensive for a person with almost poverty level income.

At this point, I still miss that old Terminator, but at 88000 miles, mostly on 4.10 gearing, the rear main was leaking on my garage floor and the blower was making strange whining noises on start up, that went away as the car warmed up, and there were clunks in the drive train and suspension, and it had developed an appetite Mobil 1, etc. It was getting very worn out, and, there turned out to be no reputable mechanic that could keep it going as it wore out, since some of the wear was no strictly mechanical. When I factored in a clutch effort that was beyond hard to push, I grudgingly decided that I had to get an auto trans vehicle so that I could get, and rehab from, a left hip replacement. I went so far as to research small vehicles, such a the Honda Fit, that I could squeeze into my garage and also keep the Terminator, but, ultimately, the garage was too small, and it was financial stupidity to have two cages. But, I miss the Terminator, as it had soul and character, something that is being engineered out of modern machines. Even the powerful 2018 Mustang GT, works best with a computer controlled 10 speed auto trans set in drag mode. Line lock and launch control and traction control and stability control and anti lock brakes that are more sophisticated than ever before, enable almost anyone who can stage the car and punch the throttle to run low 12's at 117-119, in the 1/4. No mods, no fuss, no drama. Faster and better handling right from the production line for sure, and also, the way I'd equip a 2018, $50350, MSRP. Funny, but, I never foresaw the once clear choice for bang for the buck, Mustang GT, getting priced too high for the common man.

So, at this point, I only look back at those good old days, as totally good, and, I forget all the trips to the shop and the rained out events and slippery nights at LACR, and missed shifts on otherwise record setting runs, and I remember the fun, of which there was plenty. I also know that one can not go home again, as most of the venues are gone now, and the double yellow machines have also restricted a lot of the formerly interesting roads in So Cal, to lowered posted speed limit, parade routes. There was good timing attached to the Terminator's release date, as it was a great weapon for the times, and it came along just in time to thrive in the twilight of drag racing in So Cal.

But, times change, and the Coyotes are howling now, and, Terminators are just nice old collectables, not cutting edge performers, even in a straight line, let alone handling, even with handling mods. And, the Level 2 Performance Package has not even been made available yet, which would push the MSRP up to $53000, or so, even without the expected dealer gouging for the baby GT350.

It does appear that when Ford decides to step up performance, they are capable of doing so. And, it also seems clear that Ford is not offering inexpensive performance at this point, as the pricing has dramatically increased for a 2018 with the necessary performance goodies.
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