Tri-Tip on sale at my local Ralph's

[SonicVenum]

James, I plan on starting to lift using Max OT again, but have yet to start. Been pretty busy with work and getting the Notch running.

Pat, my Mom will be 63 in a couple weeks. She started a week after I did and is down 7 lbs.

And, BMI definitely doesn't work for me. I could be 0% body fat and still be considered overweight according to the BMI chart.

[Tetge]

Your mom is losing 1.4 pounds a week, which is a more like I'd expect. And, of course, weight loss slows as a person drops weight, unless they keep cutting their calorie intake, since a lighter person needs less calories to maintain their weight. And, in spite of what any fad diet says, calories do count.

[SonicVenum]

Yes, calories count, of course. What helps your blood pressure and other vitals in this diet is that your body is relying on fat rather than simple carbohydrates for energy, therefore, it burns off the fat you have stored and keep fat from depositing itself in places you don't want it. That's what weird about eating like this. I can eat all the fat I want.

[jhwalker]

......I seem to remember ranting about BMI on SoCalt. What a horrible, lazy standard. When anyone who has a little muscle from exercising and is in good shape has a bad BMI number, it is just wrong. But is sure is an easy calc. But that is.......

You may well discredit using the BMI, or taking it seriously, but, Kaiser Permanente, attaches extra sheets of paper concerning your obesity if you BMI calculates at 30, or greater. They also attempt to forcibly detain you if your blood pressure is too high when nurse Bertha man handles you to take your blood pressure. And, heaven help you if your cholesterol is over 180, as the pills WILL be waiting for you at the pharmacy. It is all about the numbers that result from the lab work that they order for you all the time. The doctors do not actually need to see any patients in person anymore, since the numbers tell the entire story. So, unless a person wants pages stapled to their out paperwork saying that they are obese and that obesity kills, it pays to get that BMI under 30. And. they weigh you fully clothed, which could make a difference as five pounds adds .717 to my BMI. So a mere, paltry. 29.283 BMI butt naked, would be raised to 30 with 5 pounds of clothing..... This would change you from overweight, which they verbally lecture you about, to obese, which they document with printed material. Of course, it gives you something uplifting while waiting for nurse Bertha to take your blood pressure again to see if you are fit to release to leave.

In a nutshell, BMI does not understand the difference between good weight and bad weight. Highly-trained tri-athletes who are not pencil thin may be declared "unhealthy" with no analysis of body composition -- it is simply stupid and doctors who have a brain acknowledge that, but it is the standard because it costs nothing to apply.

This is more theoritical for me, because my numbers are "perfect" -- due to the healthy life that I live. hic...

[Tetge]

.......In a nutshell, BMI does not understand the difference between good weight and bad weight. Highly-trained tri-athletes who are not pencil thin may be declared "unhealthy" with no analysis of body composition -- it is simply stupid and doctors who have a brain acknowledge that, but it is the standard because it costs nothing to apply...........

Yes, the doctors do realize that it is very imperfect. But, the Kaiser doctors see large numbers of patients and also Kaiser, itself, has guidelines and criteria that automatically generate responses to test results. Each visit they enter all the current data that they collect into the computer and it cranks out paperwork. If a person discusses stuff with the doctor, the doctor may well agree that there is not a serious issue even though the computer, or the information about what lab test results (you can see your results online) indicate. So, although the cholesterol goal is now 180, perhaps if a person were at 199, the doctor would consider all the factors and agree that this is not too bad. Of course, when it is 300+....... Some doctors might even agree that a bit of alcohol can't hurt. But, mostly, they spout the party line at Kaiser and push medications in lieu of customizing the stats to suit the person.

So, I am sorry, but if your BMI is over 25, you are overweight. And, if it is over 30, you are obese. If this bothers you, lie about your height and weight. And the Feds (who did list the common deficiencies in the BMI on their site) also state that your waist size is an important factor to consider along with the BMI:

>>Waist Circumference

Measuring waist circumference helps screen for possible health risks that come with overweight and obesity. If most of your fat is around your waist rather than at your hips, you’re at a higher risk for heart disease and type 2 diabetes. This risk goes up with a waist size that is greater than 35 inches for women or greater than 40 inches for men. To correctly measure your waist, stand and place a tape measure around your middle, just above your hipbones. Measure your waist just after you breathe out.<<

[jhwalker]

We should just keep pounding this until our BMI drops just typing. BMI is simply wrong for athletes. Unless you have decided to exercise at this late state of your life, that is no concern for you. I still like to work out hard (get sweaty) 7-10 hours a week- and may begin the 50-100 miles of bicycling again when we return home.

The basic issue with the simple BMI is that is tells a person nothing about condition that can't be told more easily by looking at the person and poking him/her with a finger. When I was doing my heaviest biking, the result, due to my genetics, was a bunch of muscle on my legs, and that would cause a BMI of 26-27 when I was by all standards at my healthiest. (full physical exam with bloodwork and stress tests would confirm). Two folks with identical BMIs can have nothing in common health-wise. In fact my BMI is now lower than when I was in better shape due to the loss of muscle mass. Therefore -- I conclude that BMI is of NO value, in fact it is of negative value. The goal should be to be healthy, not meet a certain BMI. Lay off the carbs and magical stuff happens.

[Tetge]

I completely agree about the BMI. However, in my case, it works a bit better than in some other cases, since I am not an athlete, nor have I ever been one. I have to rest up for a day after mowing my small front lawn. I am sore for days after washing my car, which I use as an excuse for leaving it dirty. I even feel the consequences after playing (or more aptly, murdering) my keyboard for 30 minutes. Hell, even getting out of bed in the morning leaves me exhausted. So, the simplified guidelines apply more closely to me. If they were serious, they would put a person in a tank of water and see how much they displaced and they would look at their basic structure and consider their age and muscles and all those other things.

So, that means that we can not get an endless thread going about the BMI. However, diet is another story. I personally have discovered that a 1200 calorie diet that is adhered to rigorously will definitely induce weight loss. It does not matter what type of food one eats, if they do not exceed 1200 calories, as one pound will be lost for every 3500 calories below a person's weight maintenance figure. The actual number of calories necessary to maintain one's current weight may not be easy to ascertain, but, for sure, 1200 calories would be less than the maintenance amount. Calories do count, and, one could eat 1200 calories of carbs, such as cake, and still lose weight. However, it is important to get sufficient protein and minerals if one wishes to remain healthy. So, a balanced diet is called for, IMHO. I suppose some carnivores can do well on a diet such as Juan's, since they were meat and potatoes types to begin with. But, for those that like some carbs, this would be a tough diet to follow. And, it just might be that there is no magic present, since when carbs are eliminated, meals tend to drop way down in calories.

Now, I have to go eat my morning banana (100-105 calories) since one of my meds requires eating a banana every day for the potassium that bananas are rich in. I used to like bananas, but, now, they are just part of my medicine. Still, it is breakfast, and eating something during the day is always a good idea whether on a diet, or not. But, I suppose that bananas would not be allowed on the Juan, tri-tip, diet? Beans would also be off limits and, I like to use beans of all kinds in home made bean salads or in salads or with meat in a simple chili, etc. A big old potato is also a good thing as one can do so many things with it. I wonder if onions are allowed on the Juan programs since I eat about 1/2 of an onion every day in one form or another. I know that garlic is allowed, since I saw the tri-tip, and I too eat lots of broccoli, which I buy frozen at Smart&Final. Broccoli does have carbs:

Carbohydrate and Fiber Counts for Broccoli
•½ cup chopped broccoli: 2 grams effective (net) carbohydrate plus 1 gram fiber and 15 calories

[Brakelate]

So, what is that green stuff in the skillet ?


...and where the hell is XJRGuy anyway?

[SonicVenum]

If you're in weight-loss mode, fruits are not recommended because they are very high in carbs (sugars, more specifically). If you're in weight-maintenance mode, it's not so bad. The goal is to keep carb intake to 20-50g per day. Onions are great. Vegetables are going to have carbs, but they are of the healthy variety and they typically do not contain a large amount of carbs (the broccoli is a perfect example). The fiber contained in vegetables is also good to help along one's digestion. If you want to have beans, try to stick to black beans and don't go crazy on them. Unfortunately, potatoes are off limits because their content is a whole lot of starchy carbs. The goal is to limit insulin response as much as possible.

[SonicVenum]

So, what is that green stuff in the skillet ?

An unfortunate necessity.